From  the  Philadelphia  Inquired  of  May  27,  1S76. 

LESSONS  FROM  ABROAD. 

L  OBSERVATIONS  THAT  POINT  MORALS. 

KHE  CONDITION  OP  EEANOE,  GERMANY,  AND  GEEAT  BEIT  AIN. 
W  INTERVIEW  WITH  HENRY  CAREY  BAIRD. 

HIS  VIEWS  ON  THE  FINANCIAL  PROBLEM. 

Having  ascertained  that  Henry  Carey  Baird,  Esq.,  had  just  returned 
from  Europe,  an  Inquirer  reporter  yesterday  waited  upon  that  gentle¬ 
man  to  learn  from  him  what  economic  observations  he  had  made  during 
his  absence  abroad. 

Mr.  Baird,  who  is  well  known  as  a  close  student  of  social  science, 
tated  that  while  in  France  he  had  devoted  his  attention  especially  to  an 
^examination  of  her  agricultural,  industrial,  financial,  and  political  con 
dition.  As  is  well  known,  said  Mr.  Baird,  Trance  was  obliged  to  pay 
to  Germany  a  war  fine  of  eleven  hundred  million  dollars.  This  fine  was 
paid,  with  a  loss,  in  her  direct  intercourse  with  Germany,  of  but 
i$l 40,000,000  of  gold  and  silver;  it  having  been  actually  paid  almost 
entirely  in  bills  of  exchange  drawn  against  merchandise  shipped  to  Ger¬ 
many  and  other  countries.  To-day  France  is  the  only  country  in  Europe 
which  enjoys  any  degree  of  prosperity,  and  bears  every  evidence  of  as  high 
a  degree  of  vitality  as  she  ever  before  possessed,  e veil  at  the  most  flour¬ 
ishing  period  of  the  Empire.  This  appearance  has  a  real  and  sub¬ 
stantial  basis,  with  the  exception,  probably,  of  the  silk  industry  of 
Lyons  and  the  shipping  trade  of  Marseilles,  whose  dulness  is  explain¬ 
able  in  the  depressed  condition  of  all  the  countries  with  which  they  trade. 

Reporter.  To  what  cause,  Mr.  Baird,  do  you  think  this  remarkable 
and  exceptional  prosperity  of  France  is  due  ? 

Mr.  Baird.  To  the  fact  that  for  seventy  years  she  has  maintained  an 
intelligent  and  efficient  system  of  protection  to  her  industries,  and  that 
those  industries  have  reached  a  higher  degree  of  perfection  than  has  ever 
^before  been  seen  by  those  of  any  country  in  the  history  of  the  world ; 
mud,  furthermore,  to  the  suspension  of  specie  payments  by  the  Bank  of 
j^rance,  in  September,  1810,  the  immediate  resultant  increase  in  her  paper 


currency  from  $275,000,000  to  over  $600,000,000,  and,  notwithstanding 
the  accumulation  by  import,  of  gold  and  silver,  amounting  to  not  less 
than  $350,000,000  since  January  1,  1874,  a  contraction  in  the  circulation 
of  the  Bank  of  France  of  not  over  $120,000,000  from  the  highest  point; 
thus  making  the  instrument  of  payment  subservient  to  the  work  that  is 
needed  to  be  performed,  and  not  making  the  commerce  of  the  people 
subservient  to  an  arbitrarily  limited  volume  of  money,  as  we  have  stu¬ 
pidly  done  in  this  country  since, the  year  1865. 

Hep.  Has  the  Bank  of  France  yet  resumed  specie  payments? 

Mr.  Baird.  No,  and  it  is  not  proposed  that  she  shall  until  Januai 
1,  1878. 

Rep.  Js  specie  in  circulation  to  any  extent  to-day  in  France? 

Mr.  Baird.  Yes,  both  gold  and  silver,  to  as  great  an  extent  as  I  ever 
saw  on  any  previous  visit  to  that  country,  it  being  a  matter  of  perfect 
indifference  to  any  banker,  merchant,  shopkeeper,  or  hotel  proprietor 
whether  he  gives  or  receives  money  in  large  or  small  quantities  in  gold, 
silver,  or  paper. 

Rep.  To  what  do  you  attribute  this  condition  of  things? 

Mr.  Baird.  To  the  fact  that,  by  the  development  of  her  industries,] 
already  referred  to,  France  has  made  herself  a  creditor  nation  with  even 
country  with  which  she  trades,  and  has  accumulated  the  precious  metal 
to  the  amount  of  not  less  than  $1,250,000,000,  for  which  she  has  no  use^ 
except  as  the  basis  of  her  banking  system  and.  the  commerce  among  her] 
people.  Thus,  with  a  metallic  and  paper  currency  of  not  less  than 
$1,730,000,000,  it  is  in  the  power  of  the  people  to  dispense  almost! 
entirely  with  the  credit  system,  and  the  Frenchman  stands  to-day  withl] 
the  reputation  of  being  the  best  pay  in  the  world. 

Rep.  As  agriculture  is  generally  regarded  as  the  true  basis  of  national  j 
power,  I  would  like  to  learn  your  views  with  regard  to  agriculture  in 
France. 

Mr.  Baird.  The  effect  of  the  first  French  revolution  was  to  divide 
the  ownership  of  the  land  among  the  people,  and  the  policy  since  uni¬ 
formly  followed  has  served  to  retain  the  land  in  the  hands  of  a  largel 
number  of  owners,  while  the  great  development  of  her  diversified  indus¬ 
tries  has  made  a  large  home  market  for  her  agricultural  produce.  Th< 
cultivation  is  of  the  most  careful  character  France,  almost  from  onei 
end  to  the  other,  presents  a  scene  of  beauty  resembling  a  vast  garden.) 
Nearly  every  acre  is  under  tillage.  Few  fields  are  devoted  to  mere  pas¬ 
turage,  most  of  the  cattle  being  stall-fed,  and  the  yield  per  acre  is  pro¬ 
bably  in  excess  of  that  of  any  other  country  in  the  world,  with  tin 
single  exception  of  Belgium. 


Rep.  Has  this  condition  of  prosperity  which  you  describe  made  the 
people  happy  and  contented  under  their  new  form  of  government  ? 

Mr.  Baird.  Real  prosperity  in  any  country  which  extends  down 
among  all.  classes  of  the  people  must  and  vHll  result  in  their  happiness 
and  in  giving  strength  and  breadth  to  the  institutions  of  the  country, 
whether  the  latter  be  republican  or  monarchical  in  form.  In  this  very 
respect  the  recent  history  of  France  is  the  most  instructive  for  the  poli¬ 
tical  philosopher  and  statesman  that  has  ever  been  given  to  the  world. 
A  Republic  founded  in  1870,  and  as  Me  as  1872  almost  without  any 
Republicans  in  it,  has  been  steadily  gaining  converts  to  this  system  till, 
to-day,  France  is  overwhelmingly  Republican.  This  republicanism  in¬ 
cludes  not  only  the  mass  of  the  people,  but  has  invaded  the  higher  ranks 
of  society,  and  has  recently  conquered  the  prejudices  of  some  of  the  most 
conservative  people  of  France.  An  anecdote  told  me  at  Tours  illustrates 
the  difficulties  the  Republic  has  had  to  encounter,  but  which  she  has  hap¬ 
pily  overcome.  After  its  establishment  the  people  were  told  by  the  priests 
and  Imperialists  that  they  could  not  possibly  prosper  under  the  Republic, 
as  God  would  not  prosper  a  people  living  under  such  a  form  of  govern¬ 
ment,  and  predicted  for  their  crops  and  industries  every  imaginable  form 
of  disaster.  During  a  recent  visit  to  the  country  by  the  Protestant  pas¬ 
tor  of  Tours,  in  conversation  with  a  peasant,  the  latter  referred  to  the 
terrible  predictions  that  had  been  made,  and,  after  enumerating  the 
blessings  that  had  been  showered  on  the  people,  wound  up  with  the 
assurance,  “ Le  bon  Dieu  esl  Republicain  ”  (“  The  good  God  is  Repub¬ 
lican.  ”) 

Rep.  Do  you  consider  the  Republic  fully  established  on  a  firm  and 
substantial  basis,  and  likely  to  endure  as  the  future  permanent  Govern¬ 
ment  of  France? 

Mr.  Baird.  While  the  country  is  governed  in  a  way  to  maintain  the 
present  prosperity,  it  will  be  extremely  difficult  to  overthrow  it  or  change 
its  form.  From  the  people  it  is  in  no  peril  whatsoever,  no  previous 
government  having  been  so  popular  with  them  ;  but  it  has  its  perils. 
Among  many  of  the  higher  classes,  and  especially  among  the  adherents 
of  the  Bonapartes,  the  Orleans  family,  and  the  Bourbons,  it  has  very 
bitter  and  active  enemies.  The  President,  MacMahon,  is  himself  not  a 
Republican.  The  prefects  throughout  the  country,  appointed  by  the 
Central  Government,  are  generally  enemies  of  the  Republic.  Germany 
herself,  alarmed  at  the  financial  and  industrial  strides  made  by  France, 
since  five  years  ago  she  seemed  crushed  beyond  the  hope  of  resurrection, 
is  at  this  moment  engaged  in  industriously  endeavoring  to  foment  dis¬ 
cord  in  her  midst,  in  order  to  prevent  stability  and  check  the  further 


4 


growth  of  this  power.  Sad  to  say,  there  are,  it  is  well  understood,  men 
even  in  the  French  Assembly  who  are  in  the  pay  of  the  German  Govern¬ 
ment. 

Rep.  Why  should  Germany,  which  so  recently  vanquished  France,  so 
soon  fear  another  encounter  with  hep? 

Mr.  Baird.  Mainly  owing  to  a  want  of  true  statesmanship  on  the 
part  of  her  rulers  since  the  close,  of  the  war,  and  especially  in  the  man¬ 
agement  of  her  finances.  Believing  that  she  was  to  receive  substantially 
eieven  hundred  millionrdollars  ia;  gpld  and  silver  from  France,  in  the 
payment  of  the  war  fine,  Germany  determined  to  demonetize  silver  and 
retire  all  bank  notes  under  one  hundred  marj^s  ($25).  The  fine  was 
paid,  as  before  stated,  almost  entirely  in  bills  of  exchange  drawn  against 
merchandise.  Germany  did  nojt  get,  the  gold  and  silver  she  expected. 
She  had  reduced  the  circulation  of  silver  coin  before  the  end  of  1875 
thirty-seven  million  dollars,  and  had  retired  one  hundred  and  fourteen 
million  dollars  in  small  notes.  The  people  of  Germany,  among  the 
most  active  and  enterprising  business  men  on  the  Continent,  feeling  that 
there  was  to  be  an  ample,  supply  of  currency  to  carry  on  a  more  extended 
industrial  and  commercial  intercourse  among  themselves,  made  extensive 
preparations  for  such  increased  business.  The  result  being,  however,  that 
the  money  for  the  payment  of  the  war  fine  having  actually  to  be  furnished 
by  the  German  people  themselves,  who  received  simply  merchandise  in 
exchange,  and  the  contraction  of  the  volume  of  money  by  the  govern¬ 
ment  brought  on  a  financial  crisis,  widespread  bankruptcy,  and  industrial 
ruin,  from  which  she  is  in  no  measure  relieved  at  this  hour.  Five  years 
more  of  such  policy  will  reverse  the  relations  in  which  France  and  Ger¬ 
many  stood  to  each  other  five  years  ago.  Without  probably  understand¬ 
ing  this  condition  of  affairs,  Bismarck  appreciates  its  existence  and  has 
no  desire  to  again  measure  strength  with  his  recently  vanquished  enemy. 
In  connection  with  this  subject  I  would, state  that,  according  to  the  Bava¬ 
rian  Vaterland,  the  imports  of  merchandise  into  Germany,  in  excess 
of  her  exports,  from  January  1,  1870,  p°  December  31,  1874,  were 
$1,132,000,000.  This  will  explain  very  clearly  why  the  precious  metals 
in  Germany  have  not  increased  in  quantity  since  the  close  of  the  war. 

Rep.  You  have  stated  tha,t  no  country  in  Europe  is  prosperous 
with  the  exception  of  France.  In  what  condition  did  you  find  Great 
Britain? 

Mr.  Baird.  In  answer  I  would  say  that  I  was  assured  by  one  of  the 
most  prominent  bankers  in  London,  less  than  a  month  ago,  that  never 
in  his  experience  had  he  seen  anything  to  equal  the  disaster,  depression, 
and  ruin  which,  at  that  moment,  surrounded  him  on  every  side  in  Eng- 


I 


6 


land.  I  asked  him  if  after  the  crisis  of  18G6  things  were  not  worse, 
and  he  replied  that  the  crash  of  that  period  presented  no  parallel  to  the 
present  state  of  affairs;  that  a  class  of  men  who  were  then  unaffected 
are  involved  in  the  financial  difficulties  of  this  day.  In  Manchester, 
about  the  10th  of  the  present  month,  a  panic  was  momentarily  expected, 
following  the  numerous  and  heavy  failures  and  bankruptcies  which  had 
there  taken  place.  Throughout  England  there  is  a  feeling  of  gloom 
and  depression,  and  it  was  stated  the  other  day  in  a  London  paper  that 
within  a  year  10,000  carriages  had  been  put  down  in  that  city  alone. 

Rep.  What  lesson  do  you  consider  the  foregoing  facts  relating  to  the 
condition  of  France,  Germany,  and  Great  Britain  teach  in  connection 
with  our  own  financial  and  industrial  depression? 

Mr.  Baird.  They  justify  the  policy  of  protection  which  we  have  pur¬ 
sued  since  1861,  and  condemn  in  the  strongest  manner  the  practice  of 
the  arbitrary  contraction  of  the  currency  since  1865.  Not  only  do  they 
explain  how  our  country  may  be  made  prosperous,  but  why  it  is  that  we 
are  not  so  to-day;  and  why  we  see  about  us  such  discontent,  want  of 
confidence  in  and  dissatisfaction  with  the  government,  political  and  per¬ 
sonal  corruption,  and  a  general  decline  in  public  morals.  Our  people  must 
be  got  to  work,  and  that  quickly,  unless  we  are  content  to  see  this  ma¬ 
terial  and  moral  decline  continue  and  increase.  So  long  as  commerce  is 
made  the  servant  of  its  instrument,  money;  so  long,  in  a  word,  as  that 
servant  is  placed  above  its  master,  so  long  must  the  people  be  idle,  and 
the  country  and  the  government  decay.  It  would  be  safe  to  estimate  the 
decreased  production  in  the  United  States,  caused  by  the  paralysis  of  her 
industries,  at  $15,000,000  per  day.  This  is  a  measure  of  the  privations 
suffered  by  the  people  which  they  need  not  suffer  but  for  empiricism  in 
the  conduct  of  their  government. 

Rep.  What  policy  would  you  have  the  United  States  pursue? 

Mr.  Baird.  I  would  have  them  stand  firmly  by  protection,  and  dis¬ 
regard  the  teachings  of  the  free-traders  and  their  practical  result,  the 
Morrison  tariff  bill,  now  before  the  House  of  Representatives;  further, 
I  would  have  them  adopt  the  financial  policy  which  has  been  so  ably 
advocated  in  Congress  and  before  the  people  by  Hon.  William  D.  Kelley, 
of  bonds  bearing  a  low  rate  of  interest,  made  interconvertible  with  legal 
tenders  at  the  pleasure  of  the  holder,  as  the  means  by  which  the  instru¬ 
ment  of  payment  can  be  made  and  kept  subservient  to  commerce,  and 
commerce  in  nowise  subservient  to  it. 


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